Self Harm: What It Is, Why It Happens & How to Respond // with Cai Graham

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this is more of a path that you're going to have to walk together

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with your child so that between you, they can conquer whatever it is.

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They need to conquer knowing full well that you are by

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their side to support them.

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Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: Hello, all I'm Carmelita too.

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And welcome to know them.

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Be them, raise them a show to help busy, mindful growth oriented moms stay

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informed and inspired as they navigate their daughter's tween and teen years.

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Tune in each week to hear from experts, authors, moms who've been there and

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here a curated selection of articles read with the author's permission.

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Of course.

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If you like what you hear or you find something helpful in the

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tell your friends and leave a review on apple podcasts or Spotify.

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I would so appreciate it.

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Before I head into today's episode, I do want to mention that I'll

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be talking about self harm.

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From an educational perspective.

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There are no personal stories or graphic experiences.

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But we do discuss what it is, why it happens and so on.

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For some, this might be difficult or you may choose not to listen

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to this around young children.

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I encourage everyone to assess their situations, take care of yourselves.

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And if you need additional resources, head to naimi.org, the national

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Alliance on mental illness.

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That's N a M i.org.

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Or check out the crisis text line@crisistextline.org.

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You can also check the show notes for these links.

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So I don't think I'm alone when I say that self harm is the kind of topic that

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you know exists, but you hope you never have to deal with directly as a parent.

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It's frightening to think about your tween or teen hurting themselves on purpose.

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For a long time.

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I buried my head in the sand, hoping that I could avoid it.

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But through friends and family, as our kids have moved from toddlers to big kids.

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Into their tweens and teens.

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I've come to realize it's much more common than I initially thought.

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And it seems to lurk near the surface of our realities more often than we think.

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My guest today, Cai gram.

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Is here to shed some light on this topic.

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Cai is a parenting teen and mentor, a podcaster, international speaker

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and Amazon number one, best-selling author of the Teen toolbox.

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She's a mom of two fantastic young adults in their late twenties.

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So she's been deep in the parenting trenches.

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Kai blends, nearly three decades of motherhood.

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With her background as a master practitioner in NLP hypnotherapy

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and coaching together with her experience as a Childline counselor.

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To create her teen toolbox series, which provides parents and teenagers with the

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tools to successfully navigate the vital and sometimes Rocky stages of adolescence.

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It's her mission to help parents to support their children so that together

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we can build a mentally healthier and happier generation of young people.

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Here's our conversation.

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Cai.

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I'm so excited to have you share your voice and expertise.

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I really Appreciate you being here.

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so appreciate you giving me this opportunity.

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So thank you.

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And um, if we can help the listeners just get a handle, um, on this

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topic, then that's important.

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I think everyone wins.

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Okay.

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Diving right in, self-harm, and having

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tweens and teens that may be considering it, or in this space,

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it feels so scary to me as a parent.

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you know I've been there on the receiving side of messages

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about contemplation of that.

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And I honestly struggle and I think a lot of parents First of all there.

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I have no clue what to do when they hear about it or discover it.

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So can you shed some light on what self-harm really is and, and

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maybe starting with the origins and then we'll go from there.

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Let's let's do that First of all.

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I want to validate.

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Parents' feelings because it's a scary topic and it's a scary thing to even

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have to think about when you know that your baby is struggling because

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it's our job, isn't it, to look after them, it's our job to protect them.

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And if, if we sort of suddenly hear that there's a possibility of

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self-harm or that it's still going on you know, with your child, it's.

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It's confusing.

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UN the guilt sort of hits us, but also there's a massive amount of fear.

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And I think a lot of the reason is because for many of us, we come from

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parenting from experience and we come from parents and well, you know, ask me

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about sort of English or math homework.

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And I'll be able to sort of help you out a bit there, but when

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it comes to self-harm, many of us haven't walked that path.

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Many of us don't end it because I know in my day, whether or not

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it was going on or not, well, the tide weed and spoke about it.

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And

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spoke about mental health.

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So self harm, certainly I would, I would hesitate to say that

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never happened in our day.

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But it was never spoken about, so we didn't know about it.

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So therefore, how can we pull on our own personal resources and

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we've got no experience of it.

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So hence the fear.

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So I think we need to just say that's natural.

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Don't start beating yourself up if you know, if you are all you

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can feel is negativity and all you can feel is sort of fair.

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What I would say.

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It's like flip this.

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Totally.

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If you hear that your child is contemplating or is self-harming.

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There's a massive positive here is that you are now let into

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their world a little bit more.

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And now you can, you have the opportunity to support them.

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Because if you didn't know about it, you wouldn't be able to support them.

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But now you do know about it.

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Then there are things that you can do.

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So that that's the sort of validation about what's going on as far

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as the parents are concerned.

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Um, let's start off.

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I worked with UK largest, sort of child counseling service for a very long time.

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And their definition for self-harm is hurting yourself

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or damaging yourself on purpose.

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Right.

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Self-harm could be cutting.

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Or bruising or hitting oneself or burning oneself.

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Um, there are other schools who thought, because if we go back to

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the sort of definition of hurting yourself intentionally in some way, it

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could be eating disorders because.

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Hurting our body by showing food, it could be drugs.

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It could be addictions, it could be alcohol, it could be smoking.

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It depends what sort of school of thought you're thinking.

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It could be intentional quite bad risk taking.

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basically when your child is behaving in a way that is detrimental

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to their wellbeing, I think.

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So let's think about that.

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Anyone that is self-harming is hurting themselves to make themselves feel

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better, that that doesn't even make sense, does it, but that's what's happening.

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And so really, when I speak to kids and I'm going, you

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know, what's motivating this?

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They are just trying to put the brakes on.

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They're just trying to stop the chaos in their head.

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There is so much emotional turmoil going on.

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It's a bit like a runaway train that they can't stop.

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They can't stop this bleak, dark feeling.

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And yet by hurting themselves.

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Instant physical pain that suddenly takes over and that the emotional

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pain stops for a minute because suddenly there's that physical.

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And that is so much more instant that it just gets rid of the chaos in the

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head for that short period of time.

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And that's sort of.

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Why they're doing it in a nutshell.

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I mean,

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please appreciate that it's like peeling back the layers of the onion.

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It is different for every person why they're doing it.

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Some kids don't even know why they're doing it, but most of the time it's

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trying to just please can it just stop?

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Does that make sense?

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What struck me as you were talking was

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I've heard, mindset coaches talk about when you find yourself in a

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negative head space, you have to do something to kind of short circuit

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where your mind is going.

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And of course there are healthy alternatives that adults are encouraged

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to use, like taking a walk or exercising or doing something else.

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Now that you've talk about this, it's the same desire.

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It's the same outcome that they want of stopping those negative feelings.

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And I hadn't tied those two together that this is a way for

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kids to feel like they're coping.

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Um,

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it is.

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Well, that's the thing.

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It's a coping strategy.

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And when you actually go onto or websites on child forums and, . Kids

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or so saying I'm really struggling.

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I'm having a really hard time.

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I can't deal with this.

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The stresses are too much and the answer is, well, what are you doing about it?

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Well, some people are writing journals.

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Some people go for walks.

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Some people are self-harming well, hang on a minute.

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As an eight year old, let's say, or even an 18 year old, well I've tried

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journaling and that didn't work.

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And I've tried walking that doesn't work.

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I'll give self-harm ago.

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No no no no.

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And this is why when I said there is a positive for parents if they find

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out that their child is self-harming, is that they can go hang on a minute.

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You're trying to interrupt one cycle.

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But with, uh, in air quotes solution, that actually is also hurting you.

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So let's see if we can do something differently.

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In NLP we call is a pattern interrupt.

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So they are interrupting one pattern, one cycle, trying to stop it, stop

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the pain, but it's still misinformed and it is not the solution.

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It's not the answer, but it's one way that some kids find, it

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just stops all the other rubbish,

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Hmm.

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really is ironic and hardest.

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Yeah, what I love about this perspective on self harm,

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is it encourages I would think parents like myself to be more compassionate

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and empathetic as opposed to angry.

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Which I imagine is a common response, like how could you want to do that?

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It

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makes no sense,

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So many parents that just say, well, I've just told

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them to stop for goodness sake.

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I've ordered them.

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And the thing is, is the child's not like, oh, thanks dad.

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Yeah.

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I never thought about that.

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I mean, kids want this to stop, but what we need to do is we need to come

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as you rightly say, we need to come from a place of compassion and we

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need to understand what's going on.

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We probably don't understand terribly well because we haven't

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been through that sort of, that cycle or that experience personally.

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So we need to be able to understand what is going on in your child's mind.

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And ultimatums will not get you what you're looking for.

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So it's a matter of working out.

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How you can best support your child and working out the why's.

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Now why they're doing this?

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There was a survey and basically kids were asked, what are the top

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three reasons for self-harming?

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The first one was low self-esteem, which covers a multitude of issues.

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Um, the second one they said was because they were being.

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And the third one was because they said they had depression.

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Now I just like to sort of do a, a sort of caveat here, depression.

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This was the, the, the kids labeling it.

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What we have to remember, because I have heard from so many young people, they

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say, I've got depression, I'm depressed.

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I've got depression.

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I go, right.

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Okay.

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Have you been diagnosed and they go, oh no, no, no, I haven't

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been diagnosed, but I just know.

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And the thing is, I think what our kids need to understand is that

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they might not have depression.

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They might've just had a really bad day or a really bad week or it's exam season.

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And they're having a really rubbish month, you know?

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Cause I think the thing as soon as, as soon as we hear

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labels, we start listening to.

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So I th I think if a child still comes up to me and sort of goes I'm depressed and

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that from, you know, this is happening because I have to call them out on it

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and go, well, maybe this isn't quite right, but let's dig deeper and see why

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you're feeling so rubbish at the minute.

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So it's just trying to understand what is going on in your child's world and what.

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sort of triggering their need for this coping strategy, most of the point, once

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we sort of start understanding how do we start understanding is quite important.

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And the fastest way to do is to start talking with your child

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is opening up that dialogue.

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And, the , you really ought to stop with this.

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Don't you realize it's just not the solution and it doesn't help.

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It's more to the point let's start asking questions a different way

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and making fewer ultimatums and go.

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I know about this now I'm so glad I found out whether or not your

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child opened up to you or you found out from a different source.

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And it's basically what you need from me?

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How, how do I support you?

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How do I help you deal with this?

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Cause self harm is a lot about control.

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So much stuff is out of control that they can control this.

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Um, and, and it's just being open and listening to what they

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have to say, because some kids might need practical skills.

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Um, or practical support.

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Other kids might need space.

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I'd like, well now, you know, just leave me alone because they don't know

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what's going on in their heads, so they might need to get that sorted.

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But it's just trying to open up that conversation where your child

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actually feels as though you've got their back rather than yet.

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Again, you're going to be nagging them and being on their back.

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Do you know what I mean?

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:14:00

right.

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Yeah.

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That, shift from trying to get them to change or.

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And stop being sad and asking, how can I do

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better?

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And how can I show up for you?

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Tell me what you need.

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I can see that resonating differently.

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100% with both parents and the kids.

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And I think a lot of parents, again, as we said,

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come in because it's scary.

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It's confusing.

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They come in with fear.

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They come in with ultimatums, they come in with accusations and I think what's

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also important is just understand that.

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Cause I've, I've had so many sort of parents sadly, so saying, well, they're

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just that just looking for attention.

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And it's what we have to remember is.

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Self-harm is not attention seeking.

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And if you just think about, if you've got a child who is cutting themselves,

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I would say odds on is that they are always wearing baggy jumpers and

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stuff that covers up all the scars.

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That's not looking for attention.

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That's trying to hide it all the way.

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That's trying to keep it secretive.

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And I think that's the thing we need to understand why is

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self harm still very secretive.

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Why is your child trying desperately for you not to know about it?

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And there are a number of reasons here.

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And number one is mum or dad will over react.

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That's the natural response is like,

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you know, you're hurting yourself and you know, it's just, this is just alien

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unless you followed that path yourself.

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But I'm talking to the masses that probably haven't here.

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The child is worried about mum and dad overreacting, because

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they know that it's not right.

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They know that it's probably not the best solution, but something inside them

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that, you know, your child is, is sort of still driving them to do this because

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they haven't found another solution yet.

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So we need to address that instead of going, you know, we

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need to set back and remove our own ego, remove our own emotions.

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This is forgive me.

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has nothing to do with you.

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This is about your child.

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The second reason is are the kids are saying, I don't want to cause

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mum or dad or whoever, whoever the significant parent or adult is, I

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don't want to cause them any more pain.

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We shouldn't be putting that responsibility on our children.

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I I'm, I'm struggling.

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I got all this going on in my world, blood run.

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And the last thing I want is to make mum and dad upset and make them feel bad.

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That should not be our child's responsibility.

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It is our responsibility to manage our own emotions.

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So the first thing that I would suggest if you hear your child is

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struggling as self-harming, whatever is pull yourself away from the

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situation and practice self-care.

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Breathing belly breathing or whatever it is that helps you

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ground yourself and become more grounded, I think is the right word.

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It's just to allow yourself to go, okay.

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Let's assess the situation with less.

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Emotion, how can I support my child with a level head?

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And that's what we need to do.

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Please don't put another thing for your, child's worry about it's important for the

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parent to go, okay, I've got this right.

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Okay.

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It's not about me.

Cai Graham: 00:17:29

I can go and have a meltdown later.

Cai Graham: 00:17:31

I need to sit down and support my child as best I can now.

Cai Graham: 00:17:37

And that's, the thing, because.

Cai Graham: 00:17:39

we can't blame our child for bad behavior in air quotes.

Cai Graham: 00:17:44

We can't, you know, if we start judging, it's just going to

Cai Graham: 00:17:48

add, to a more negative situation.

Cai Graham: 00:17:50

So I think the thing is, , is self-compassion not, oh,

Cai Graham: 00:17:54

well I've failed as a parent.

Cai Graham: 00:17:55

It's no no no no like I found out and I can step up now.

Cai Graham: 00:18:00

And as a parent, I can do something about this so that I can best support my child.

Cai Graham: 00:18:06

In the way my child needs me to support them because suddenly, you

Cai Graham: 00:18:10

know, sometimes your child sort of hits a roadblock or a stumbling block.

Cai Graham: 00:18:14

You roll up the sleeves and you think right, I can solve.

Cai Graham: 00:18:17

That's not our responsibility either.

Cai Graham: 00:18:19

Cause then our kids don't learn and grow.

Cai Graham: 00:18:22

So it's, this is more of a path that you're going to have to walk together

Cai Graham: 00:18:26

with your child so that between you, they can conquer whatever it is.

Cai Graham: 00:18:31

They need to conquer knowing full well that you are by their side to support.

Cai Graham: 00:18:36

them

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:18:37

Mm.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:18:38

Mm, something that came up for me, as you were talking, was.

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How important it is for parents to be aware of how they're showing

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:18:45

up and the impact that that has.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:18:48

Because I think sometimes we forget that, oh, if we fly off the handle,

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:18:52

every time our kid tells us something negative, then they're going to feel less

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:18:57

inclined to share big, hard news with us.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:19:00

Or if we are frustrated with our own lives or with work, and we put so much

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:19:05

of that on them, or we show up in a way that feels uneven and unpredictable,

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:19:10

they won't want to add to our stresses.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:19:13

so Exactly

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:19:14

what you've said, recognizing the need for taking care of ourselves in this, in

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:19:19

the parenting journey is so important.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:19:21

So we can show up in a more grounded, capable, and even keeled way like a

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:19:26

neutral space, a safe space for our kids.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:19:29

I think so often we think of self-harm as being something that's just entirely

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in our kid's control, but they're reacting and making decisions also

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:19:37

based off of how they think we'll react and how we're showing up.

Cai Graham: 00:19:40

Precisely.

Cai Graham: 00:19:41

And I think a lot of this is because their minds are still growing,

Cai Graham: 00:19:45

their brains are still growing that, you know, the adolescent brain

Cai Graham: 00:19:48

doesn't stop sort of developing until the, mid to late twenties.

Cai Graham: 00:19:54

And so everything is in chaos.

Cai Graham: 00:19:56

It could be hormones, you know, a lot of adolescent life, many

Cai Graham: 00:19:59

teenagers feel out of control.

Cai Graham: 00:20:01

And so self harm is a way of controlling, whatever is going on.

Cai Graham: 00:20:06

And I think the thing is, is that we can't control this, but we can help

Cai Graham: 00:20:12

them deal with what they're going through in a much more constructive

Cai Graham: 00:20:17

manner and a manner where they feel supported and loved and not judged

Cai Graham: 00:20:22

because.

Cai Graham: 00:20:23

It's confusing for all of us.

Cai Graham: 00:20:25

And I think the thing is, is rather than feeling, I need to be able to

Cai Graham: 00:20:29

deal with all this and I need to be in full control, rather than I've

Cai Graham: 00:20:33

got to sort it because it's hard and your child might not be able

Cai Graham: 00:20:37

to even verbalize what's going on..

Cai Graham: 00:20:40

I think sometimes turning to your child and going, no idea what's going on,

Cai Graham: 00:20:45

but we are going to do this together.

Cai Graham: 00:20:47

Let me hear and understand what's going on so that together

Cai Graham: 00:20:51

we can make things better

Cai Graham: 00:20:54

Let's just take it one day at a time.

Cai Graham: 00:20:56

We don't have to have this solution sort of, you know, packaged up to today, but

Cai Graham: 00:21:01

I'm with you yes, you might need to go and see doctors and yes, you might need

Cai Graham: 00:21:05

professional support, but the point is now this is a journey your child doesn't

Cai Graham: 00:21:10

have to do on their own anymore longer.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:21:17

What a powerful conversation with Kai and I'm

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:21:20

stunned by how much I learned and how many nuances there are to this topic.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:21:24

In a separate episode, Kai, we'll dive a bit deeper into how parents

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:21:28

can show up for their kids.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:21:29

The warning signs to watch for and healthy coping strategies.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:21:33

So keep an eye out for that.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:21:35

But here are my top takeaways from this episode.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:21:39

Number one.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:21:40

Self-harm put simply is harming oneself on purpose.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:21:43

It can manifest in many different ways.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:21:46

We most often think of burning or cutting.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:21:48

But eating disorders and self-destructive behaviors such as drugs or

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:21:52

intentionally making bad decisions can also fall under this umbrella.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:21:57

Number two.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:21:58

Self harm is a coping mechanism.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:22:01

It's essentially a pattern interrupt.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:22:03

It's short circuits, the internal pain for a moment.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:22:06

To end itself harm.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:22:08

We have to identify what's motivating it and help our tween or

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:22:11

teen find healthier ways to cope.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:22:14

Number three.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:22:16

Self-harm is not attention seeking.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:22:18

Number four.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:22:19

If you discover that your child is having thoughts of self harm or has

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:22:22

engaged in self harm, it's natural to experience feelings of guilt and shame.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:22:27

Instead of beating yourself up, consider the discovery a positive, it's an

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:22:31

opportunity to support your child.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:22:33

Number five.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:22:35

Ultimatums guilt and anger will not get the self harm to stop.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:22:40

Instead aim to come from a place of compassion and support.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:22:43

You can say, I'm so glad I know about this.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:22:47

What do you need from me?

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:22:48

What can I do to support you?

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:22:50

How can I help you with this?

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:22:52

Be open and listen, the goal is to get to a place where they

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:22:55

see you as having their back.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:22:58

Number six.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:22:59

If you discover your child is self-harming.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:23:01

Have compassion for yourself.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:23:04

And strive to show up in a calm non-judgemental way to help open

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:23:08

up the space for honest dialogue.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:23:10

Taking care of yourself on this parenting journey is so important

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:23:13

so you can approach stressful situations with a level head.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:23:17

Number seven.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:23:18

We can't control or fix self harm on our own, but we can help our young person.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:23:22

And deal with what they're going through in a more constructive manner.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:23:25

Where they feel supported and loved and not judged.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:23:29

And it's good to tell them that.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:23:31

That while you may not fully understand, and you may not know what to do.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:23:35

You will always be there to help.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:23:37

If you are worried, a family member or friend might be hurting themselves,

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:23:41

you can also refer them to the crisis text line@crisistextline.org.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:23:46

They can provide help in identifying healthy coping alternatives.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:23:50

You can text the word connect.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:23:52

To 7 4 1 7 4 1 for free 24 7 help for.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:23:57

Or self-harm.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:23:58

To learn more about Cai Graham.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:24:00

Visit www.kaigraham.com.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:24:03

. That's C a I G R a H a m.com.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:24:08

You can also follow her on Instagram at Chi gram.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:24:11

And find her on Facebook, her Facebook @thecaigraham.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:24:16

And her Facebook group.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:24:17

Is called the parent and teen toolbox.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:24:20

A huge thanks for listening.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:24:22

If you found something helpful or insightful.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:24:24

Remember to subscribe or follow, tell a friend and leave a review

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:24:28

on apple podcasts and Spotify.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:24:30

I'm honored and humbled to share a portion of your day with you.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:24:34

And here's to strong women.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:24:35

May we know them, may we be them?