Episode 54

full
Published on:

26th May 2023

Our Kids & Sexual Assault - How to Prevent, Respond & Support // with Claire & Dr. Sadohl

What do you do if your daughter shares that she’s been sexually assaulted?  Do you know how you would react?  Do you know if your reaction would truly help or hinder your child?

In this powerful episode, Claire Horner and Dr. SaDohl Jones of RESET: Trauma Unstuck, share their thoughts on prevention, response, and support.  Listen to hear:

  • What we can do create a safe space for our kids to share
  • Things that can undermine our efforts to create open communication
  • How to respond in the moment, in a way that supports your child
  • Words to use as you and they process the events, the retelling and the journey of healing
  • If, when, or how to share their experiences with others
  • Foundational things parents can do to help our kids be less of a target

Guest Spotlight: Claire Horner and Dr. SaDohl Jones of RESET:  Trauma Unstuck

Claire and Dr. SaDohl (suh-doll), are two sexual trauma specialists in Atlanta, Georgia.  To heal their own trauma while helping others do the same, they have dedicated their professional and personal lives to healing. They have over 39 years of combined sexual trauma recovery experience, both in the therapist chair and on the couch as clients.  

Their channel and business is called “RESET: Trauma Unstuck” and they launched “The FOF or Freak Out FREE Podcast on Valentines Day where they match survivors, helpers, and allies with resources for sexual trauma healing to increase confidence and handle life…The Freak Out Free Way.”

Connect with RESET Trauma Unstuck, Dr. Sadohl and Claire:

And check out The F O F Podcast – you’ll find expert resources for sexual trauma healing to increase your confidence and handle life…The Freak Out FREE Way.  https://www.podpage.com/freak-out-free-with-claire-dr-sadohl/


Episode Resources


Know Them, Be Them, Raise Them

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Are you interested in becoming a founding member? Email me at hello@carmelitatiu.com , or head to https://www.knowberaisethem.com/contact/ to touch base and learn more!

About the Host, Carmelita Tiu 

Mom, partner, life coach, podcaster, wordsmith, legal eagle.  Endlessly curious about how we can show up better for ourselves – because when we do that, we also show up better for our kids and those around us. Head to carmelitatiu.com to connect and learn more.

Transcript
Dr. SaDohl Jones:

there's something to be said about the sharing of this

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

experience and the courage that that takes for that to be verbalized.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

It's also something that they may be afraid that if everyone knows

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

how are they gonna look at me?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

It took me everything I had to tell you.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And if I think everybody else in the family knows, oh God, I'll die.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Welcome to know them.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Be them, raise them.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Uh, show to help moms stand formed and inspired.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

So they can show up for themselves and their daughters the way they want to.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I'm your host Carmelita two.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Before I head into today's episode,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I do want to mention that my guests and I talk about sexual assault

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

from an educational perspective.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

There's no graphic stories, but we do discuss how to react to and

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

support survivors of sexual assault.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

For some, this might be difficult or you may choose not to listen

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

to this around young children.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I encourage everyone to assess their situations, take care of themselves.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And if you need additional resources, head to rainn.org, that's R a I N n.org.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Or check the show notes for links.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

So this is a podcast first for me, as you likely know, I try to keep my

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

episodes around the 20 to 25 minute mark to make them easy to finish on

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

your commute, a lunch break, et cetera.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

But when I went to edit this 40 ish minute interview and try

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

to break it into two episodes.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I found it was so powerful that I couldn't break it up.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

One of my goals for this podcast is really to give moms and parents the insights

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

and skills to navigate the tough topics.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And sexual assault certainly falls into this category.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

My guests today do a masterful job of sharing in a

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

compassionate and informed way.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Claire and Dr.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Sedol, our two sexual trauma specialists.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

In Atlanta, Georgia.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

To heal their own trauma while helping others do the same.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

They've dedicated their professional and personal lives to healing.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

They have over 39 years of combined sexual trauma recovery experience.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Both in the therapist chair and on the couch as clients.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Their channel and business is called RESET: Trauma Unstuck.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And they launched the FOF or freak out free podcast on

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Valentine's day of this year.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Where they match survivors, helpers and allies with resources for sexual

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

trauma healing to increase confidence and handle life the freakout freeway.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

We talked in depth about what to do, if your child or anyone really shares with

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

you that they've been sexually assaulted or have experienced sexual trauma.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

How to respond, how to process and provide support.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

As I noted earlier, it's a really powerful conversation.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

It just flowed and every second felt so insightful.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

So I didn't edit it down.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Um, but I'm sure you will find it as captivating as and compelling as I did.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Here's our conversation.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Claire, and Sadohl, I am thrilled to

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

have you here because I know your expertise and wisdom will provide

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

guidance for a lot of the listeners.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

So thank you for being here with me.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Thank you for having us.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Thank you very much.

Claire Horner:

Absolut.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

So I, I think I'd like to dive

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

in with kind of a question.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Reactions, you know, what are some reactions we can anticipate and

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

prepare for when we learn of someone's sexual assault or when someone

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

decides to share their story of sexual assault with, um, with anyone.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

This is a conversation that Claire and I have had before,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

kind of like that space of when someone does share with you their

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

experience, um, What's the reaction?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

What's an authentic reaction and what's the best reaction for the person sharing?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And so I think when you look at, the parental relationship, the

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

initial reaction is probably not the reaction that's going to benefit

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

the person that's sharing, right?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Because initially our first reaction is to be protective.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Our first reaction may be to be in denial.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Our first reaction may be disbelief that this is actually happening and.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Um, Claire and I are liking this to this space of grief of like the first two

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

reactions are usually not the best ones.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Um, and they're not the ones that we're gonna sit with the longest.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Um, and so when it comes to being a parent, as a parent, I think the

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

best thing to do is to not react as much as possible initially and allow

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

the person, allow the child, the son, the daughter, the other person

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

on the other end to continue to.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Okay.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Because there's something about being able to have the

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

voice initially to say it out loud.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And usually the, the person's looking to see how you're going to react.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Right,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

That lets them know if they want to continue this

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

conversation and continue the sharing and continue this space of vulnerability.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And so my initial, recommendation is to not react.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

at first.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

you may have an internal reaction, but

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

don't have a verbal reaction.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Don't have an outward, um, reaction initially because, that reaction.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

To deter them from continuing to talk.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Cuz again, as parents, we wanna protect.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

So I would imagine initially you want to go after the person, you want to start

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

asking questions when, why, how, what you wanna do all those different things.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

But those are the things that can really shut someone down.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Um, that space of feeling interrogated, that space of feeling

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

blamed, even if it's unintentional.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And so, first, um, thought would be to allow that person to continue speaking

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

so that you can find out what you need to find out so that you can encourage

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

them to u continue to use their voice to express what's going on with them,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

and then create a safe space with you creating that and cultivating

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

that relationship of a safe space.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Um, and with kids, we know that oftentimes if they don't feel like

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

they can speak to you about one thing, then they're probably not gonna speak

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

to you about the next thing, right?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

They're not gonna go into more detail.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And also, just from experience as a therapist and as a parent,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

what I hear first is usually not the whole story, right?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

There's usually much more to come after that.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And so I wanna leave that door open.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

For my son and my daughter to continue to have that conversation with me,

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Yes.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

and continue to share piece by piece.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Cuz a lot of times it's not all together that, that they're going

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

to share, they're gonna share a little bit X, y, and Z happen.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And then they're gonna see what your reaction is and then they're

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

gonna share a little bit more.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And so you want to leave that door open for them.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And so that would be my initial, my initial response.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Um, and then I'll let Claire responder add to that.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

But that's kind of.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I think we wanna go, we want to, you know, don't react verbally,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

don't react outwardly, initially, allow the person to continue, allow

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

the child to continue to speak.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Um, but you wanna, of course, creating that nurturing space, but

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

you want them to continue to talk.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Don't ask a bunch of questions, that's not necessary.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Um, and, and also, yeah, a ask that stuff later and also do a self-check.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Do a self check on you.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Like control your, control, your own stuff.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

It's like, I like to say, control how you're feeling on the inside.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Control that initial, you know, mama bear, Papa Bear reaction to what you're hearing.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Hmm.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

and go into that space of nurturing and listening.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Active listening, we'd like to say right in a therapy

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

space and of active listening.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

yeah.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

I just have to say that I.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

This is a, a, a light bulb moment cuz I, I, I do think that we as parents,

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

and, and I know it myself and I know I've seen it in my parents, tend to

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

react instinctively, oftentimes in the best way we know how, which might

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

be what we've seen in the media or what we've seen from parents who don't

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

have the best emotional regulation.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

But it's what we know and I, I could see myself very much

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

reacting from that interrogatory.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Angry place because I think that's how I should be reacting.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

so introducing this idea of kind of hit pause on that because that's not what's

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

gonna serve your child in the best way is, is really kind of a wonderful take

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

on it cuz you know what's best for us or what we think is best for us in the

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

moment might not actually be what's best for the communication and the dialogue

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

and the relationship with your child.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Yeah.

Claire Horner:

if you can take that deep breath and swallow all those feelings for

Claire Horner:

the moment, just hit the pause button.

Claire Horner:

You don't have to hold them forever, but hold them for the moment and say, if

Claire Horner:

you need to say something, tell me more.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Mm.

Claire Horner:

Tell me more.

Claire Horner:

Tell me what you can right now.

Claire Horner:

If, if it needs to come later, it can come later.

Claire Horner:

Just keeping that openness, that availability.

Claire Horner:

You may not be able to say everything now, but you could always come back to me.

Claire Horner:

But let's take care of you.

Claire Horner:

That's the message you wanna give is I hear you.

Claire Horner:

I believe you.

Claire Horner:

Let's take care of you.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm

Claire Horner:

don't have to do anything right now.

Claire Horner:

We don't have to do anything right now except honor this moment and

Claire Horner:

honor what you've been through.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Claire Horner:

I do think it's super important that to, to know that the

Claire Horner:

likelihood that this sharing will come at a very random moment that is not timely.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Claire Horner:

It may come when you're balancing five things and have groceries

Claire Horner:

in hand or another child or something, and it just is that they found the moment.

Claire Horner:

To get the words out of, out of their mouth,

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm

Claire Horner:

and so everything has to stop

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Claire Horner:

everything.

Claire Horner:

If you're in the car, pull over.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Right.

Claire Horner:

Nothing else matters in that moment.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Claire Horner:

Because what they've been through is, is the most important thing.

Claire Horner:

And if they've managed to get it out of their mouth, it

Claire Horner:

took a long time to get from,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Yeah,

Claire Horner:

took a long pathway across the country, across the nation,

Claire Horner:

across the world, potentially to get to what you're hearing right now.

Claire Horner:

And it might even be a whisper because keep in mind, trauma is.

Claire Horner:

Often, well always trauma always shuts off the language center.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm

Claire Horner:

And so sometimes getting to the words even later

Claire Horner:

afterwards is very, very difficult.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Claire Horner:

Often why, why people don't talk about it.

Claire Horner:

So those are my, my things is to keep that phrase in your back pocket.

Claire Horner:

And I think that fits for so many situations.

Claire Horner:

Tell me more.

Claire Horner:

Um, because if someone's initiating a conversation, it's their.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Right.

Claire Horner:

your turn, but it is their turn and the

Claire Horner:

reactive response is not helpful.

Claire Horner:

The other huge thing that, um, DRS and I talked about in thinking about

Claire Horner:

these big ticket moments and what to do is prepare ahead of time.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Claire Horner:

Prepare your internal responses ahead of time.

Claire Horner:

Know that it's likely not, like I said, it's potentially gonna

Claire Horner:

happen in a random moment.

Claire Horner:

It also may include information that you have a surprising reaction to.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Claire Horner:

What if it's a sibling talking about another sibling?

Claire Horner:

You are going to have some feelings about.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Yeah.

Claire Horner:

So sit with that early,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And there has to be a place to check that.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Right?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

So thinking about parental responses or just responses in general and

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

thinking about that space of protecting our kids and wanting to show them

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

that we want to protect them.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And balancing, like Claire just mentioned, balancing that space between

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

family, um, and other family members.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Other siblings, right.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And the other child.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I think there's something to be said.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Having conversations early, talking about safe spaces early.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

it's almost like a space of being preventative in

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

communication so that your kids do feel comfortable coming and speaking to you

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

about whatever they have on their mind.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Whether that's, I've experienced this sexual trauma or I cut my finger, right?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And then you being nurturing in those small instances,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

you being open in those small

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Hmm.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Um, You being willing to hear and listen to

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

them in those small spaces, um, that allows for those big spaces.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Um, they will be more apt to come to you in those bigger spaces as well.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And so I think one of the things that we talk about is, um, how do we set up

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

our communication dynamic with our kids?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

What does that dynamic look like?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Um, on a, about, about everything on any given Sunday, right?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

What does that conversation look like?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Because that's what's going to say, yay, this is gonna work.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Okay.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I know that I can talk to my mom about the boy.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I can talk to my mom about the girl.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I can talk to my dad about school.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I can talk to my dad about, you know, sport, whatever the thing is.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

This is, this is no different.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm-hmm.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

in that same line.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I can still talk to them about this too.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And as Clara said, because that language center is shut down, it's really

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

important that kids have a space to go to, and know that they can come

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

to you like you are that safe space.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And so oftentimes it's really difficult to have that conversation.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

It's really difficult to hear.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And as parents, sometimes we have to check our own trauma.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

We have to check our own experiences, um, and our own biase.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Right.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Check those things and, and not allow those things to be, , the

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

responsibility of our kids.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Hmm.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

It's so helpful to hear you lay out these suggestions as to how to prepare,

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

cuz I think that certainly for me, that's something I'm, I'm, I just have no

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

knowledge of and, and so, you mentioned thinking about situations and how you

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

might react and thinking about your own histories and, and checking yourself

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

and make, and identifying your own triggers and how you might be inclined

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

to instinctively respond, you know, , and sitting with that, it's not comfortable

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

right.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Um, but, but such,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

comfortable.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

It's just not a comfortable situation, adult or child, right?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Doesn't matter what, how old you are.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

It's just not a comfortable conversation.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And, um, so it's, it's just difficult.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

It's difficult to have those conversations.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And so spec specifically, we talk about adults, it's hard to, to verbalize

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

those things, but can you imagine as a.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

To verbalize those

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm-hmm.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

that comes along with that, and the courage that it

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

takes for kids to say, this is what's going on with that fear in mind.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Yes.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Yeah, I just got chills rethinking about that.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Like you said, the courage it would take.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

And, and Claire you mentioned like when it does come up, even at these

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

inopportune moments, I love the mental picture of if you're in the car, like

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

pull aside that, cuz I, I don't know if that would've been my initial reaction.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

I think being told, you know, if you're told in the car pull aside is so helpful

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

because I, I, I could see myself being a deer in headlights and just continuing

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

to just go through the motions and all the while trying to process, not

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

thinking about how not stopping would

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

you know, your child or whomever

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

is telling you their story.

Claire Horner:

Well, that goes along with, you know, How, what is

Claire Horner:

the, what is the culture in your home of listening to one another?

Claire Horner:

When someone says, I have something important to say, do you stop and turn to

Claire Horner:

them and sort of drop what's happening?

Claire Horner:

Or ask them, how much attention do you need?

Claire Horner:

Do you need my full attention?

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Hmm.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Claire Horner:

and if that is something that happens on a regular basis about

Claire Horner:

other topics, then it will be much more instinctual with the big ones,

Claire Horner:

and especially teenagers, I don't know.

Claire Horner:

I was one for sure, and I picked some random times to speak to some things

Claire Horner:

and um, and, and usually it was that moment of it just sliding out, you know?

Claire Horner:

But keep in mind too, trauma also happens, and especially in this

Claire Horner:

category of sexual abuse and sexual assault before children have language.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Claire Horner:

So they don't always have the language to share.

Claire Horner:

They may have the language to say, I'm uncomfortable.

Claire Horner:

They may have the language.

Claire Horner:

You know, we talk about body autonomy, even with young children,

Claire Horner:

not making them hug everyone.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm.

Claire Horner:

not having the culture in your home that you must hug

Claire Horner:

everyone that comes in the house, because that's the sweet thing to do.

Claire Horner:

Especially if you're a girl.

Claire Horner:

You know, that's, that's not, that's your choice.

Claire Horner:

Who you hug is your choice.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm-hmm.

Claire Horner:

but I also think that, you know, another one of these cultural

Claire Horner:

in, in the home kind of cultural things is maybe you don't have to say it.

Claire Horner:

If you have something important to say to me, you can write it

Claire Horner:

down or you can draw me a picture.

Claire Horner:

You can give some indication that you need to get something to me.

Claire Horner:

And sometimes words are hard, sometimes language is not.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Claire Horner:

If you see an article or if you hear a song, or if you,

Claire Horner:

you know, share, share those things with me, if it resonates with you.

Claire Horner:

And then when this, if this topic comes up.

Claire Horner:

And they need to share something that almost happened or um, or did

Claire Horner:

happen then there's again, it's, there's already a, a path paved

Claire Horner:

there for the, for the interactions.

Claire Horner:

I will, I'm gonna also throw in kind of a like, uh, legal recommendation if you

Claire Horner:

finish and kind of get through to the other side of this conversation and you

Claire Horner:

know, you, you both feel terrible but good all at the same time because you've been,

Claire Horner:

they've been able to share this with you.

Claire Horner:

Definitely as a parent, as soon as you can, when you get in

Claire Horner:

a, in a private space, write everything down that you heard.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Ah.

Claire Horner:

Start the record in case you need.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Claire Horner:

Write down where you were, what they said, what, how, how you

Claire Horner:

interpreted what they said, what they named, if there're, you know, if there's

Claire Horner:

who, what, where, when, why, and how.

Claire Horner:

Questions that were answered.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Hmm

Claire Horner:

details down.

Claire Horner:

Go ahead and start the record cuz you may need it.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

That's such,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

it's important that that's something that we do

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

after the fact, and that's not the goal during the conversation, right?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

So it's something I think that's so important because oftentimes

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

we will forget or it, it, you know, goes out of our mind.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

But that's not what you wanna do in the conversation.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

You do want to be genuine, authentic, focused, checking yourself, checking

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

with your kid, that kind of thing.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And then for sure when you get a moment, um, Things have

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

maybe settled down for sure.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Document, document, document, document.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

As much as, um, as much as possible.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: The, that reminder to document.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Is so helpful too, because I can imagine when big feelings come around

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

that might not be your first instinct.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

You know?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

It's so you're still processing, you're still feeling all of these things.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I could see myself being super upset and not, not wanting to

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

necessarily write about that, maybe writing about other things.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

But, um, so that's, that's really helpful.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And it, it, it relates to Claire, what you were saying about.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Opening up different avenues to let your child communicate with

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

you if, because sometimes a verbal communication isn't the easiest.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Yeah, in introducing those multiple spaces of

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

communication, because everyone doesn't communicate the exact same way, right?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

So because everyone doesn't communicate the same way, allowing

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

your kid to communicate in the best way that helps them in that moment.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Right.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

and that may evolve over time and over developmental stages.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

You know, initially it may be drawing a picture and then it may be writing,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

and then it may be speaking and then, you know, that kind of thing.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

But allowing that range and differentiation of communication

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm-hmm.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

allows them to be themselves.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

That's that space of also creating autonomy and creating a space of

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

openness and conversation early on.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And so when we think of like, how do you.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

How do you prevent, how do you help, how do you, um, ensure that

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

your, your kid is going to share?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And I say kid, cuz I don't wanna only focus on girls

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

because oftentimes it's boys

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

right?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

So it's, it's sometimes there are situations where the boys

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

have to have these conversations and it's usually difficult.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

More difficult, I would say, for boys to have the conversation because they're not

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

taught that these are things that they should be having a conversation about.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm-hmm.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

when those things do come up, if they know that

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

any way they communicate is okay,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

we hear this thing where kids are, are small, kids are kind

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

of communicating non-verbal.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And parents are like, speak.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I need you to speak.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Use your voice.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Use your voice.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Well, when they get ready, they will.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Right?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

They will use their voice at some point and it's, it's helpful to

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

encourage them to use their voice, but sometimes things are not verbal.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Uh,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Um, and so if I can draw a picture, you know, we're not doing play

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

therapy, but I can draw this picture to, to, to illustrate to you what's happening

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

and then you can take it from there.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

I like the validation of writing and pictures.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

And honoring that as a way to express yourself.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

I think a lot of times in our extroverted society, we see saying something as the

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

ultimate way of communicating, but being able to articulate period, what you're

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

thinking and what you've gone through.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

is the end goal.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And oftentimes, you know, when someone is traumatized,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

it shuts down certain parts of their.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Communication or certain parts of their brain or certain parts of their body.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And so maybe that verbal communication isn't there anymore.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Right.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

So, Claire talked a, a little bit earlier about that language

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

piece, being affected.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

When trauma happens, sexual trauma happens.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Sometimes that language piece is affected for a long period of time.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And so if the voice is gone, For a long period of time,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

whether that's a month or two months, or three months, or six months or a year.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

If that kid is no longer verbally communicating and the only way

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

you will allow them to communicate their feelings is verbally, then

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

that creates a barrier immediately.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I think back to Maya Angelou who talked about her sexual trauma as

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

a kid, and it's shutting down her verbal communication for over a year,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

she didn't communicate verbally.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Right.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

He didn't

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Right.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And when we think of Maya Angelou, we don't necessarily think of her

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

not speaking, but, but it, she didn't communicate for a year verbally, out of

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

fear of what would happen if she spoke.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And so that lends itself to how we communicate our intent to protect

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

our children to our children.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Right?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

So when we say if some someone does something to you, I will blank blank, and.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Now a kid is probably afraid to even let you know that something

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

has happened cuz they don't want something to happen to you or something

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

to happen to the other person.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Or something to happen to them.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And so then they may not speak at all because they are in fear of what you

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

may do to the person who's hurt them.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And then also they may be in fear of what will then happen to you.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Right.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

So there's this dichotomy of, yeah, so there's this

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

dichotomy of like, well, I'm going to lose my parent because if my parent

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

does something violent and goes to prison or gets killed or something,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

then I'm gonna lose that person.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And then now there's a possibly a person in my family that I'm

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

also going to lose because my parent has done something to them.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And so the pressure and the weight of that responsibility on children is heavy.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

mm

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

may cause, that may add another layer to

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

that space of not communicating verbally and not saying anything.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And so it's really important that other forms of communication

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

is allowed and and invited.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

But it's also important that we as parents communicate our intent to protect, but

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

also our intent to not put ourselves in danger, if that makes any sense.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Cuz children do take on that respons.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

A lot of children don't speak about their sexual trauma or their sexual assault

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

or sexual abuse as children for fear of

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

fear of

Claire Horner:

they may have heard you respond to someone,

Claire Horner:

a situation on the news.

Claire Horner:

They may have heard you, you know, react, you know, well, if that ever happened to

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

That's right.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

I'll kill him.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Exactly.

Claire Horner:

Exactly, and they are, they are listening and I, you know, we

Claire Horner:

can't censor every second and that kind of thing, but if you hear yourself say

Claire Horner:

something like that and you catch it, you can always go back and say, you know what?

Claire Horner:

You know, we were listening to the news and all that horrible stuff that was

Claire Horner:

happening or is happening with so-and-so, and I said this and I want you to know.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Claire Horner:

You know, I thought about that and, and how that might

Claire Horner:

have, how that might have sounded.

Claire Horner:

The, the child may not say anything, but you're following

Claire Horner:

up to, to clarify your message.

Claire Horner:

And even if, even if, let's say you, you do all the wrong things.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Claire Horner:

they tell you and you don't stop the car and you

Claire Horner:

say, that couldn't have happened.

Claire Horner:

If some of

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

all the questions you

Claire Horner:

If you ask all, if you interrogate

Claire Horner:

as soon as you can turn it around.

Claire Horner:

You know what?

Claire Horner:

I reacted and I didn't listen to you.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

mm

Claire Horner:

And you know what?

Claire Horner:

Let, can we try that again and maybe not write the, you may not be ready

Claire Horner:

right this second and if you don't trust me, I understand cuz I res, I reacted.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

mm

Claire Horner:

But if you, if you find it or if you're able to give me a second

Claire Horner:

chance whenever you're ready, I'm.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Hmm.

Claire Horner:

That

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

the elephant in the room because we're not perfect, right?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Like we're human.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Our reactions are going to be human reactions.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And so there's nothing wrong with going back and saying, I often say

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

things like, um, okay, wait a minute.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I wasn't prepared for that.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

So, Let me process it for just two seconds.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Okay, now let's

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Hmm.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

like, like the elephant in the room is I'm human and my reaction

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

is initially, but now I'm listening.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Now I'm paying attention.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And so I love that idea of I get to go back and say,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

this was my initial reaction.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I may not have allowed you the opportunity to speak.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I may not have, you know, given you my full attention in that.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Let me redo that so that you now have my full attention, and if you

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

do wanna come back, we can have this conversation that kind of, vulnerability

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

on, on our part as the adults

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

helps the kid understand that, okay, it's not

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

gonna be a perfect situation, but you know, mom and dad, cousin,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

auntie, whoever is going to be there.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Yeah.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

And, and about vulnerability.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

I think people often hesitate because they don't wanna do

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

the wrong thing, but even that hesitation can imply something else.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

They may not know that you're just figuring it out in your head, but

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

putting it out there that, like, I don't know what to do right now, and I'm

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

just thinking about this for a minute.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

That's so helpful.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Like that's a, a script that I also wanna put into my, you know, the litany

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

of things that I'm trying to remember to

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Claire Horner:

Something we haven't touched on, and you know, I've been

Claire Horner:

using this word a lot, but like the culture in the home, you know, people

Claire Horner:

ask, what can we do to prevent?

Claire Horner:

And so there's.

Claire Horner:

There's a couple things there.

Claire Horner:

One is we can't keep other people from acting in ways

Claire Horner:

they've already decided to act.

Claire Horner:

Those are two different things we can, we can do whatever

Claire Horner:

we can to set things up well,

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm-hmm.

Claire Horner:

that is their decision in all of the shootings and crimes

Claire Horner:

and hate that we've been watching.

Claire Horner:

You probably most even a child would say, that's not the fault

Claire Horner:

of the people who were in the

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Claire Horner:

recently.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm-hmm.

Claire Horner:

That's not the fault of the driver

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Right.

Claire Horner:

who maybe accidentally cut the person off.

Claire Horner:

It's, it's that person's decision.

Claire Horner:

And we can't always control that decision, and so we have to separate out the two.

Claire Horner:

A lot of times people take ownership and blame in order to try to get control back.

Claire Horner:

Well, if I could have prevented it, then X, y, Z wouldn't have happened.

Claire Horner:

And it's understandable to try to grab the control back in that way.

Claire Horner:

It's, it's understandable.

Claire Horner:

It, the math just doesn't work.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm.

Claire Horner:

At all.

Claire Horner:

One plus one is two, not three.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Uh,

Claire Horner:

You know, you, you can't take somebody else's

Claire Horner:

decision and put it on yourself.

Claire Horner:

Even if they put it on you,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Claire Horner:

even if they tell you it's your fault, it doesn't make it your fault.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

mm.

Claire Horner:

So, so the, that's an, that's an a crucial piece, you know,

Claire Horner:

and we, we hear that on, on the therapy.

Claire Horner:

Often in, in the mirror, probably often as

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Often.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Claire Horner:

so the other piece is if there was a prevention

Claire Horner:

type of thing, it is to instill self-worth, self-value, love of self.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Claire Horner:

And because when we don't have that, it is a beacon.

Claire Horner:

A lot of times it's a, you know, I, I call it the marquee that rolls

Claire Horner:

across our forehead and neon letters.

Claire Horner:

It's, you know, I don't have good boundaries.

Claire Horner:

there are messages and a lot of times those messages are there

Claire Horner:

because someone gave them to a child and the child just took them cuz

Claire Horner:

they didn't know what else to do.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm.

Claire Horner:

They just took that in because nobody else

Claire Horner:

was saying, nobody was saying.

Claire Horner:

Dr. SaDohl Jones: Anything opposite of that.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm mm.

Claire Horner:

And so self value and catching things, catching red

Claire Horner:

flags, you know, again, all of that shouldn't be on us to do, except

Claire Horner:

that we tend to naturally do some of those things when we value ourselves.

Claire Horner:

And again, I'm not putting the onus on us valuing ourselves always on us because

Claire Horner:

you know, many times the people who raised us did not instill that and did the

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm-hmm.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm-hmm.

Claire Horner:

And so we have to catch it.

Claire Horner:

And so any of those pieces of I'm not worthy or I don't love myself, or I don't

Claire Horner:

trust myself, we have to go after it.

Claire Horner:

Like it's a, a disease and, and find, find the antidote so to speak,

Claire Horner:

the antidote being hopefully love, hopefully some good things even

Claire Horner:

from a pet, you know, or, or nature or, um, that's a whole episode.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Yeah, I think that's a really good point though, that space

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

of understanding the family culture and how we set up the culture in our home

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

for our children and how they communicate and what our dynamics are going to be.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I oftentimes say that when a child is assaulted, there's usually a door.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

there's something to be said about, doors and windows.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I always say there's doors and windows for each kid, right?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And so sometimes doors are open that invite unwanted things.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Hmm

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

That's not the fault of the kid, that's not

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

the fault of the parent, right?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

If someone, like Claire said, if someone's going to do

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

something that was already there.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I liken that to the space of if Uncle Charlie was already doing that,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

uncle Charlie's going to do that.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Has nothing to do with Sarah Sue being whoever, Sarah Sue.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Those things don't correlate, right?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Because oftentimes we say, well, what were you doing?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

How were you interacting?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Or, you know, you can't do this or, and I don.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

As a sexual trauma specialist, um, as a woman and as a mother of a

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

daughter, I don't like to have that conversation about what you should not

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

do to prevent someone else's behavior,

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm-hmm.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

then that means you are now responsible

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

for someone else's behavior.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And that's not accurate.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

So not healthy.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Right,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

It's not healthy to, to have that kind of responsibility of

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

someone else's, um, behavior or feelings.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Right?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And so that conversation about, awareness of self, but also the fact

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

that victim blaming victim shaming, it's not you, it's Uncle Charlie.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Uncle Charlie is who he is.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

He's going to do that, whether it's you or whether it's the cousin next

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

door or the girl down the street, or the boy across the street.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

That's going to happen regardless.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And I think having that conversation and allowing, um, children to

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

understand that is really important.

Claire Horner:

And how do we catch that and shut that down

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And mm-hmm.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And that's where that space over, you mentioned it earlier, Claire,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

you don't have to hug everybody.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

You don't have to go hang out with someone that you don't wanna hang out with.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

there's an instinct that happens with kids that if it's shut down,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

then it's extinguished, right?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Like, if I have an instinct as a kid that I don't necessarily

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

wanna go hang out with that adult.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I don't really know why I don't wanna hang out with that adult, but I don't

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

really wanna go hang out with that adult.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

But if it's extinguished by saying, don't act like that.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Don't be like they're just trying to have, you know, some time with you.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Well, now you've extinguished my instinct

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

and you've extinguished and my intuition, and now I don't trust it

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

because you are the adult that I trust.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Right.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Right.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And you've just told me to now don't pay attention to

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

that thing that's bubbling up in me.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

The hairs that are standing up on the back of my neck, the goosebumps, you've

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

just told me not to pay attention to that, but to listen to someone else external.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm-hmm.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Yeah.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I'm not listening to myself when things are happening, right?

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

right.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I have a friend, I was telling Claire this story about my, uh, a

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

friend of mine, his daughter is two years old, and he was having a bad day and he

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

said, you know, can you give daddy a hug?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And she said No.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And he said, All right, no problem.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And he said, you know, daddy sad.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

She was like, mm-hmm.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And she said, he said, do, does it look like daddy needs a hug?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

She said, mm-hmm.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And he said, you still don't wanna give daddy a hug?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

She said, Nope.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

He said, absolutely, you, you don't have to give me a hug.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And that's her father.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Yeah, that's

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

But that autonomy of you don't have to just because it's me.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Right,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

who it is.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

If you don't want to in this moment, for whatever reason, it's okay.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And teaching her that even at two, that my, sense of self is important.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Whatever that looks like.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Yeah,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And so that's how we do that space of like prevention.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

It's teaching early.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

It's how, what's that culture in our household of, you know, I

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

can close my door if I need to.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I can have some privacy if I need to.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Like those little things.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Tell our kids that their, meter is ok..

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm-hmm.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Now, what would you suggest for, for parents that maybe have not had

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

early conversations or, maybe can see themselves in some of these don'ts,

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

uh, and they have older kids now, is all lost or are there ways to kind

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

of re reengage that intuition and,

Claire Horner:

If you have a 40 year old, it's not too late!

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Absolutely.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I don't think it's ever too late.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

You can still have that conversation where it is, you know you can say anything,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

you can talk to me about anything.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Um, is there anything that you wanna talk to me about having that conversation?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Just leaving the

Claire Horner:

Anything might look like X, Y, Z, even giving examples.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Examples of what that conversation is and also when they do

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

have those, uh, conversations that we're uncomfortable with, checking our own

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

feelings and our own biases about what we think they should be doing at 17 and 18.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And also what we were doing when we were 17 and 18.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And not allowing our traumas and our triggers to

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

be their narrow responsibility.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Because oftentimes we parent based on our experiences, right?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Whether good or bad, we either do the absolute opposite of what we experienced,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

or we do exactly like what we experienced.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Right,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And because of that, we sometimes, um, transfer our

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

trauma and our triggers onto our kids.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And that can be where the conversation shuts down.

Claire Horner:

Mm-hmm.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Yeah.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

are saying, when we're parenting based on our

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

fear of what we think is going to happen to them or with them.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Um, and so no, there's no time that's too late to have a conversation.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

, um, or even wanting to open the door, like go back and say you.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I remember when you were younger, you know, X, Y, and Z, and we never

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

really talked about it, and I'm wondering if that's something that

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

we should have talked about or something that we can talk about now.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Um, you know, I'm learning more about X, Y, and Z, or I'm maturing in a way or my

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

enlightenment is different now than it was when I was a parent to you as a kid.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And so I have a better understanding of certain things and I'm

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

wondering if I missed something.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And if I did, if it's something that you wanna share, that's a

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

conversation that can, that you can have at any stage, at any age.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Um, and it really does impact your kid.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Hearing that from a parent, like, I may have missed something.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And it's not because I intentionally wanted to miss it.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I just didn't really know how to respond to that.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I didn't really know how to react to that.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Um, I have a little bit more wherewithal now and I'm wondering if that's a

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

conversation that you're even open to.

Claire Horner:

Or I handled that horribly.

Claire Horner:

I have parents who tell me the stories of what they, what they did,

Claire Horner:

and, and are, are tortured by it.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Claire Horner:

Because they had the reactions and then things got

Claire Horner:

covered over and then time passed and you know, life kept moving and

Claire Horner:

you know, but that circle back is

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

So important.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

It's so important.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

I have tears and chills right now it just,

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

it feels so healing and it's so, reassuring to hear from both of you.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

It, it's never too late.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Claire Horner:

Yeah.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Um, you know, something that came up, a question

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

that came up, and it might be a little bit of a departure, but in holding

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

space for our kids and honoring how they want to process and the timing

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

of their disclosure and, um, emotions, you know, what happens if your child

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

did experience sexual assault or sexual abuse, but they don't want anyone

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

to find out besides you, the parent.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

At what point , is there a point where you know you have to go against your kids'

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

instincts or wishes to keep it private.

Claire Horner:

It's so hard.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I will say it's very difficult because again, we

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

wanna protect our kids, but I think there's something to be said about

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

honoring their feelings in the moment.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Um, and I think there's something to be said about, explaining things to

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

them when it's appropriate, right?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Like, so initially that may be where they say, don't tell anybody.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I don't want anyone else to know.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I just, I just wanna share.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And in that moment, that's where we need to be.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And there will be.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Right, right.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Exactly.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I was gonna say, not promising, I'll never say anything because

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

at some point you want to have a conversation with the, with your child

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

or with the kid about, empowerment.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Right.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Taking back their voice.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Right.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Being empowered To advocate for themselves in a way, right?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And that conversation in that developmental space

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

that's appropriate for them.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

But that's kind of the gist of it.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And I think that maybe at some point they do want to do something.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

They do want to tell someone else.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

They do want to make a report.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

They do want to seek justice in some way, and it may be where they don't

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

wanna seek justice but they will become less ashamed because really that,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

that comes from a space of shame.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Don't tell anyone.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Don't tell anyone.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

That's a, that's a shame space, right?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And so teaching them and helping them kind of navigate out of that space of

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

shame and be more empowered with their experience and help them, whether that

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

be through therapy or whatever that looks like for them, so that they can

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

then be able to have a conversation.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Hmm.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

About what their experience has been.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I agree with Claire not making any promises that I'll never say anything.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Now am I gonna go, you know, tell it to the family reunion?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

No, I'm not telling it to the family reunion.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Um, it's not something that is for everyone to know,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

because here's the thing.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

As we talked about earlier in this conversation, there's something to

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

be said about the sharing of this experience and the courage that

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

that takes for that to be verbalized.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And can you imagine that it's also something that they may be

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

afraid that if everyone knows how are they gonna look at me?

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Right, right.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Can you imagine that?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

It took me everything I had to tell you.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And if I think everybody else in the family knows, oh God, I'll die.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Like I literally, it will be too much.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

So I think there's something to be said about, no, I'm not gonna promise that.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I'll never say anything ever in life, but I can promise you this.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I'll respect your space.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

mm.

Claire Horner:

Or we do it together.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Or, yeah.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Or if, if, mm-hmm.

Claire Horner:

I would say be careful to, as a parent, go to a professional

Claire Horner:

as soon as you can for yourself.

Claire Horner:

Getting your child help is certainly good too, but they will also be able to

Claire Horner:

help you navigate some of those things.

Claire Horner:

I mean, we are mandated reporters and there may be some things there,

Claire Horner:

but, that's a different tangent.

Claire Horner:

Um, but you know, you may feel like it's your job to tell the other parent whether

Claire Horner:

you're married to them or not, you may feel like the other parent should know.

Claire Horner:

And that's really probably the, the child's role too, um, is to

Claire Horner:

decide when and how that happens.

Claire Horner:

Whether you assist, that's something, or whether you enlist

Claire Horner:

a professional and you all go together and that's where they share.

Claire Horner:

So there's a little bit more boundaried space and those types of things.

Claire Horner:

Um, there are some different avenues to take.

Claire Horner:

Um, Dr.

Claire Horner:

Sadohl and I will be sharing with you, Cat, a few resources that

Claire Horner:

you can put with the information that goes with this episode.

Claire Horner:

Um, but even parents going through mandated reporter training,

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm-hmm.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm.

Claire Horner:

a, , proactive step to know what those processes are.

Claire Horner:

Um, and, there are lawyers that specialize in this area.

Claire Horner:

Um, I would go check, check Facebook groups and things like that for support.

Claire Horner:

I'm not gonna recommend a particular one necessarily, but there

Claire Horner:

are some good resources there.

, Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Dr.

, Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Sadohl, what you were saying about holding space versus reacting

, Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

to it or publicizing it.

, Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

I think, , there's this an innate desire to wanna fix fast as a parent

, Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

and, and pacing it and not closing the door on disclosure at a later point

, Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

in time, but approaching things in a incremental fashion . And that relates

, Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

to, I think, Claire, what you were saying as well about , not necessarily sharing

, Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

with your, your partner in parenting, and that being a decision of your kid.

, Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

I, I don't know if I would've thought of that, cuz I

, Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

instinctively share everything.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Yeah.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Especially as it relates to the kids, right?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Like you share everything as it relates to the kids.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Uh, there's some things that you want to hold.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

do either of you have a parting

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

thought or sentiment that you'd like to share with the listeners?

Claire Horner:

Okay, I have one.

Claire Horner:

It's strong, so I'm gonna take a beat,

Claire Horner:

but this is something that came up for me last year sometime.

Claire Horner:

Um I don't know.

Claire Horner:

I don't know why it came so strong, but it was, it felt timely.

Claire Horner:

And it's not an affirmation and it's not, it's not like the warm and fuzzy, but I,

Claire Horner:

you know what I'm gonna say, don't you?

Claire Horner:

Um, there is something that I think is super important, so

Claire Horner:

I'm, I'm just gonna say it.

Claire Horner:

You cannot lose your virginity by assault.

Claire Horner:

Sex and sexual assault are very different

Claire Horner:

things.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

Mm,

Claire Horner:

They are worlds apart from each other.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Yeah, that's good.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I don't have another one.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

, I'm gonna take Claire's.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

That's perfect.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

It's, it's fantastic and, and honestly,

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host:

I had not heard that before,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: makes complete sense,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Many of us right?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Many of us haven't heard that.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Claire Horner:

That idea.

Claire Horner:

I hear reverberated in people.

Claire Horner:

, that , those are very different things.

Claire Horner:

And if you have Been through sexual assault, been through

Claire Horner:

sexual abuse, the sex is different.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Yeah.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Yeah.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And many people haven't heard that, just like you said.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And that has its own connotation, right?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

So that encouragement and that empowerment, um, that releases a lot.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I'll say that.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

It releases a lot.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I am so incredibly grateful for this conversation with Claire and Dr.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Sadohl and I hope you took as much from it as I did.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I usually do a shortlist of takeaways from each episode.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

But since this one was so good and longer than usual, my list is longer too.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

But don't worry about remembering everything.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

There are transcripts on the website @knowberaisethem.com.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And I will be making these into carousels on Instagram, @knowberaisethem.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

You can also connect with Dr.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

SaDohl and Claire on Instagram and Tik TOK @resettraumaunstuck, With no spaces.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And find the freak out free podcast on your favorite podcasting platform.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

These links are all in the show notes as well.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

So please visit there to access all of that goodness.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Here are my key takeaways.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Number one.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Be proactive in creating safe, judgment, free spaces on a day-to-day basis.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

When you're willing to listen and nurture your daughters with small things, your

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

daughters will feel more comfortable speaking to you about big things.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Number two.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

If there is a prevention type of tactic, it is to instill self-worth.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Self value and self-love.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Because when a child doesn't have that, it is a beacon.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

If there's evidence of I'm not worthy or I don't love myself.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Myself or I don't trust myself.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

We as parents have to address it.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Number three.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Remind your kids that we can't keep other people from acting in ways they've

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

already decided to act that is on them.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

We can't take responsibility for somebody else's decision.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Girls and women are not responsible for boys and men's behavior and vice versa.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Number four.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Think about how you're setting your kids expectations.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

If we say if someone does something to you, I will blank, blank, blank, blank.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Your child may not share with you because they're afraid of what you

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

may do and what that could lead to.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Number five.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Stop everything.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

If your child is sharing their experience of sexual trauma.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

It's likely that this sharing will come at a very random moment.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

But be sure to go into a space of listening.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Control your anger questioning or desire to take action.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

What we feel is best for us in the moment might silence the communication and

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

impact your relationship with your child.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Number six.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Only share your child's experience with others when your child is

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

ready and with their permission.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Number seven when you get to a private space, as soon as you can write

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

everything down that you've been told.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Write down where you were, what was said?

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

The, who, what, where, when, why and how of the situation.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Start the record because you may need it.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Number eight.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

It's never too late to re-engage and have conversations and say the

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

things you wish you had said earlier.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Or apologize for how you handled something.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

You can say, you know, I reacted this way and I may not have allowed you to

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

speak or given you my full attention.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I'd love a redo.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

That kind of vulnerability, no matter when it comes up will

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

have a huge impact on your child.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And number nine.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Tell your daughter that you can't lose your virginity by assault.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Consensual sex and sexual assault are very different things.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

When Claire said this, I was bowled over to be honest.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

It's so obvious and so empowering to make consent part of the equation of virginity.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I think it's so important for people to know.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

If you or someone, you know, has been sexually assaulted.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Help is available.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

As noted earlier, you can check out rain, R a I N n.org for

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

more resources and information.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And Claire and Dr.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

SaDohl also recommend Saprea an organization devoted to fighting sexual

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

abuse and its lasting impacts through healing and prevention services.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

They can be found at saprea.org.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Thanks for listening today and being the committed intentional parent that you are.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

If you enjoy the podcast please follow, tell a friend and leave a

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

review on apple podcasts or Spotify.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

If you haven't already.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Also as a listener, I'd like to invite you to be one of the founding members

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

of the rise and raise collective.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

It's a mastermind I'm starting of mindful growth oriented girl moms who want to grow

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

as individuals and parent with intention.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Now, when I say mastermind, this does not mean you have to be an expert.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I am not an expert by any stretch.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

It's really a sense of curiosity and commitment to personal

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

development and growth that qualifies someone to be part of this.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

My vision is to provide a safe and celebratory space to learn,

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

grow and connect with other moms of tween and teen girls.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

We can share stories, ask questions, cheer each other on and get

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

advice from other people who are on the same journey as you are.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

So in terms of what to expect, I envision virtual gatherings with other

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

moms in a casual way and yet intimate.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Like a sharing circle where moms can ask questions and tap into the

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

wisdom of the hive if you will.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Monthly group coaching sessions, where we can discuss mindset, positivity.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Setting boundaries, working towards goals.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Tiny habits.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

All these different things that we could do to potentially improve ourselves, but

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

it could help to have some accountability and information to nudge us along.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And then virtual events with experts, moms who've been there, the types of

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

guests that are on the podcast, but have a chance to ask questions and learn.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

If you're interested, shoot me a direct message on Instagram @knowberaisethem

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

visit the website knowberaisethem.com and you can send me an email from there.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Or head to the show notes.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

I will have my email there as well.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

Thanks again for listening.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

And here's to strong women.

Dr. SaDohl Jones:

May we know them, may we be them, and may we raise them.

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About the Podcast

Know Them, Be Them, Raise Them
Helping moms be & raise strong women
Are you a growth-oriented, mindful and busy mom who wants to raise strong daughters? Me too!

Tune in for short episodes (under 25 min) filled with inspiration, insights and actionable tips from experts, moms who’ve been there, and host Carmelita Tiu (a mom of two girls herself).

Hear about timely (& sometimes tough) topics: boundaries, self-care, creating safe spaces, self confidence, intuition, negative patterns, body positivity, friendship, body image, gender stereotypes, stress, and more.

Follow @knowberaisethem on Instagram for more info.

And here’s to strong women -- may we know them, may we be them, and may we raise them.

About your host

Profile picture for Carmelita Tiu

Carmelita Tiu

Service, creativity, and human potential -- these things inspire Carmelita Tiu as a mindset coach and life strategist for mindful moms, and as an attorney, podcaster, creative, educator and parent. After receiving her art degree and law degree, she worked as an attorney at The Oprah Winfrey Show and OWN: The Oprah Winfrey Network for several years, then pivoted to the design and advertising world. She's also held adjunct professorships at DePaul University and Columbia College Chicago, and served on the boards of numerous cultural and community service organizations.

As a curious and committed mom to two daughters, Carmelita recently launched the podcast, "Know Them, Be Them, Raise Them," a show that informs and inspires mindful and growth-oriented moms of girls -- so they can show up for themselves and their daughters the way they want to. "Know Them, Be Them, Raise Them" is on all the major podcast platforms, or head to knowberaisethem.com.