How to Navigate & Challenge Beauty Standards // with Val Monroe & Debbie Saroufim

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Hi all and welcome to know them.

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Be them.

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Raise them.

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Uh, show to help busy, mindful, and growth oriented moms stay informed

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and inspired as they navigate their daughter's crucial tween and teen years.

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I'm your host Carmelita too.

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And I am so glad you're here.

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Each episode is packed with inspirational advice while tackling tough topics."

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Yay.

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I am so glad you found it too, Corinne.

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So.

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In the last episode, episode 51, which you may hear if you just keep letting your

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podcast player keep rolling after this.

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But I featured the first half of my discussion with Debbie

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Saroufim and Val Monroe.

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Debbie Saroufim is a body relationship coach based in Southern California

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with a background in personal training.

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Through coaching virtual workouts and community.

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She helps women learn to love their bodies, even while

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they're working on them.

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Build an immunity to died cultures, negative messages, and establish

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a healthy relationship with food.

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Val Monroe was beauty director at O the Oprah magazine for nearly 16 years.

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And she's considered an expert in the field.

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She was also an editor at Ms., Red book, self and parenting magazines

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among others, and has written hundreds of articles on a wide range of topics

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for various national publications.

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She also publishes a popular sub stack newsletter.

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How not to F up your face, philosophical and practical advice for anyone

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who's ever looked into a mirror.

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In the last episode, which is linked in the show notes.

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But again, you can also probably listen to it if you're just going

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to let your podcast player roll.

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We talked about objectification and beauty.

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Mirror meditation, what it is and why it works.

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The roots of beauty standards and the importance of being

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able to sit with our discomfort.

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And how you don't have to feel beautiful to be beautiful.

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That duality informed the jumping off point for today's episode.

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So without further ado here is the rest of our conversation.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:02:34

So, so two things, I'm hearing.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:02:37

One was this idea of expanding what is considered beautiful.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:02:42

And then another thing that I felt was coming up was trying to distance beauty

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:02:48

as the source of our valuation period.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:02:50

So, there's kind of two ways we could improve how we view things

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:02:54

or our perspectives or society.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:02:57

one being, expanding our definitions of beauty and the other being,

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:03:02

beauty not having the same hold over us in terms of how we see it

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:03:07

as the primary source of our worth.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:03:09

Are there ways, uh, whether they're small day-to-day things, or larger efforts

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:03:15

that moms, women, especially, you know, being a mom of two girls who are totally

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:03:21

on the cusp of this, like already doing the long stairs at their eyebrows,

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:03:26

or, they're their chins, et cetera.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:03:28

I mean, How can we change the narrative?

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:03:30

How can we help encourage our youth to, you know, live into and

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:03:36

grow into a different reality?

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:03:39

, Debbie Saroufim: well, I, I

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:03:44

that we are doing in this house.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:03:46

, and then I also wanna say like, it's a process, right?

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:03:49

Like, I have to continue to, as I discover, sort of where the toxicity

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:03:55

of the culture lives within me, I identify more pieces of it elsewhere.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:03:59

Um, so one of the first things I'm gonna say, and it sound it, I almost feel like

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:04:03

it sounds too young for someone my age to say, but, I've spent a lot of time really

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:04:10

curating what I'm seeing on social media.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:04:12

you know, I think there are these aesthetically appealing social media

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:04:17

profiles that you see, and they reinforce this Eurocentric idea of beauty.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:04:22

I have gone out of my way to follow different body types, different

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:04:28

ages, different genders, different colors, different, just really

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:04:32

just sort of, Eliminating the idea that there's only one way to be.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:04:37

And I think that it's really important to do, not just for like people

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:04:41

who look like you, but for you.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:04:43

Like, you know, I always say you don't know what's gonna happen to your body

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:04:47

and you know, you don't know what's gonna happen to your face, right?

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:04:49

So we want to not only normalize what it's going through right now, and that

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:04:54

for me is a 42 year old space, but I don't, I don't want every single

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:04:58

day to be another battle, right?

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:04:59

So just normalizing the fact that this is what bodies look like because, you

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:05:04

know, the kids they're gonna have so much more access to it than I did

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:05:08

at that age because of social media.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:05:10

I had this very cool moment for a parent thing the other night we were

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:05:14

watching the Celtics game and, uh, a Gatorade fit commercial came on.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:05:19

It was very stereotypical Gatorade in that it's sweaty athletes drinking, and

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:05:23

it's normally these, you know, this.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:05:25

Aesthetic.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:05:25

What we identify as healthy looking athlete.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:05:29

And then they showed, um, a fatter bodied athlete and she was drinking.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:05:35

And I'm, I have to say shout out to Gatorade Fit because

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:05:39

they're normalizing these bodies.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:05:41

But the cool moment that I got to have as a parent is my daughter goes, oh

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:05:46

mommy, this is a commercial you like.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:05:48

And I was like, what?

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:05:50

And she goes, well cuz they're showing different body types and in all the

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:05:53

shows I watch, everybody's just thin.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:05:56

And so she knew, right?

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:05:59

And so just expanding enough to remind ourselves that there is other

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:06:07

stuff out there, normalizing it.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:06:09

I think so much of it is sort of, you know, our generation trying

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:06:12

to sort of pull away from what our parents, like everything was

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:06:14

fairy tales with when I grew up.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:06:16

But we don't wanna pull the, the magic out of childhood.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:06:19

And so how do you do it with, and it can be all of it, right?

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:06:23

And so I thought that this was a cool moment and um, if we didn't have that

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:06:27

normalizing in our house, I don't think that moment would've happened.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:06:31

So that's my big piece of advice is to just sort of bring in real looking

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:06:39

bodies and people and faces, um, including faces that have had work done.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:06:45

And you just wanna normalize all of it, right?

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:06:47

You wanna normalize the fact that, hey, if you want to get a

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:06:50

facelift, you can get a facelift.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:06:52

You're not good for it, you're not bad for it.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:06:53

You're just a person who got a facelift.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:06:55

This is a person who chose not to get a facelift, right?

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:06:57

And you just wanna normalize the choice that you have in

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:07:01

participating in the, in the culture.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:07:04

That's my, that's my answer.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:07:06

There you go.

Val Monroe: 00:07:07

Yeah, I think that's really important and I, I was hoping

Val Monroe: 00:07:09

that was what you were gonna say.

Val Monroe: 00:07:11

You know, I see a different thing here in Tokyo because Disney has such a

Val Monroe: 00:07:15

huge impact on the culture for some reason I don't really understand.

Val Monroe: 00:07:19

But, um, but Disneyland is a big thing here and Disney Sea, and so,

Val Monroe: 00:07:24

consequently a lot of that kind of sexist, you know, the old kind of

Val Monroe: 00:07:30

antiquated ideas about gender and gender roles, it's everywhere here.

Val Monroe: 00:07:33

And I see it in my granddaughter who dresses up like a princess.

Val Monroe: 00:07:37

Which I think is wonderful, she loves it, but she also likes to play, I think

Val Monroe: 00:07:41

I wrote about this not too long ago, she likes to play the, the prince who

Val Monroe: 00:07:45

vanquishes the bad guys with the sword.

Val Monroe: 00:07:47

So she's getting both in a way.

Val Monroe: 00:07:49

But I kind of worry about the messages that she's getting

Val Monroe: 00:07:51

from the old Disney stuff.

Val Monroe: 00:07:53

You know, I think what Deb was talking about in terms of normalizing differences

Val Monroe: 00:07:57

is really, really important, I just don't know how far that is gonna go.

Val Monroe: 00:08:01

I mean, we'll find out, I guess, how far that that'll go, but basically,

Val Monroe: 00:08:05

because we're fighting against this huge capitalist engine, you know, that's

Val Monroe: 00:08:09

gonna be constantly pressuring our girls to conform, to buy, and then of course

Val Monroe: 00:08:16

to buy into the, the whole culture.

Val Monroe: 00:08:19

Um, I think it's gonna be an ongoing battle.

Val Monroe: 00:08:21

And, and I have to say that though, I'm often overwhelmed by the amount

Val Monroe: 00:08:25

of stuff Deb posts on social media.

Val Monroe: 00:08:28

I think it's super, super important because that's one of the only ways that

Val Monroe: 00:08:33

we're going to be able to reach the kids who are being affected by social media

Val Monroe: 00:08:37

in the ways that we consider negative.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:08:39

Yeah.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:08:40

Hmm.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:08:40

Just for the record, I am also overwhelmed by how

Debbie Saroufim: 00:08:42

much time I spend on social media.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:08:44

Again, I feel, I feel far too old to be spending that much time on social

Debbie Saroufim: 00:08:48

media, but it is, such an incredible tool in a way to communicate with people.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:08:51

And I think that there's such a limited resource of honest,

Debbie Saroufim: 00:08:55

vulnerable, this is what it feels like.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:08:58

And so then I'm gonna come back to what I said in my last conversation with you,

Debbie Saroufim: 00:09:01

Cat, when we had to talk about how to raise girls with a healthy body image.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:09:06

And I said, you know, we as parents, we get to keep reminding them that we

Debbie Saroufim: 00:09:10

now have information that we didn't

Debbie Saroufim: 00:09:12

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: have when kids, right?

Debbie Saroufim: 00:09:13

Mm.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:09:13

Mm-hmm.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:09:13

And so, We can comment on the, the gender dynamics

Debbie Saroufim: 00:09:17

and the gender roles, but we can also comment on the beauty standards, right?

Debbie Saroufim: 00:09:19

Like, "isn't it kinda unfortunate that, that all of our shows are

Debbie Saroufim: 00:09:24

still following those really old, old stylistic choices of like the

Debbie Saroufim: 00:09:29

Prince comes to save the princess.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:09:31

That's what they were doing when I was a kid.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:09:33

Now, we know culturally that women are capable of so much more, but I think a lot

Debbie Saroufim: 00:09:39

of people just kinda like these stories."

Debbie Saroufim: 00:09:41

and we can have, it can become a conversation, right?

Debbie Saroufim: 00:09:43

It can be, "it's a bummer that, that people aren't thinking outside of this.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:09:47

We get to think outside of this box!"

Debbie Saroufim: 00:09:49

And then you get to normalize, you know, I'm gonna refer back to what I

Debbie Saroufim: 00:09:52

said before, which is that, um, you can dislike something about your body and

Debbie Saroufim: 00:09:56

that doesn't mean that it needs changing.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:09:59

Which also doesn't mean that you can't change it, right?

Debbie Saroufim: 00:10:01

I'm with Val on, if you, objectively look at your face and you say, "I

Debbie Saroufim: 00:10:05

want a facelift and it's gonna make me feel better, life is short."

Debbie Saroufim: 00:10:09

Totally.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:10:10

but it's a choice, right?

Debbie Saroufim: 00:10:12

can you say I'm doing this for me?

Debbie Saroufim: 00:10:15

Or is this something that I'm doing for the culture?

Debbie Saroufim: 00:10:17

And by the way, if the answer is the culture, that's not a wrong answer.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:10:20

That's just an honest answer.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:10:22

So it all kind of gets to be part of the conversation, which is, " we have so

Debbie Saroufim: 00:10:27

much more information for you nowadays than, than I had when I was growing up.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:10:32

I hope I'm giving you the tools to sift through it and navigate it and decide

Debbie Saroufim: 00:10:37

what serves you and what doesn't.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:10:40

Because it was just dumped on me and now I'm still sort

Debbie Saroufim: 00:10:43

of sorting through the rubble.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:10:44

But my hope is that I'm giving you enough to question things, right?"

Debbie Saroufim: 00:10:49

And they're gonna keep questioning things.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:10:50

This isn't gonna be over with my daughter's generation, I'm not

Debbie Saroufim: 00:10:53

even confident that it will be over with her kids' generation

Debbie Saroufim: 00:10:56

or, or her kid's kids' generation.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:10:58

But I am hoping that bit by bit, we chip away at it and continue to normalize

Debbie Saroufim: 00:11:03

you know, feeling bad doesn't mean you are bad, that you're allowed to

Debbie Saroufim: 00:11:06

feel bad, and it is, again, just a feeling that you can move through.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:11:10

And that all feelings, even the good ones pass, right?

Debbie Saroufim: 00:11:12

Like, that's the conversation that needs to be normalized as opposed to this,

Debbie Saroufim: 00:11:16

if you don't like it, Fix it, right?

Debbie Saroufim: 00:11:18

Because then there's this implication that if you don't like it, it's

Debbie Saroufim: 00:11:21

because something's wrong with it, and there is this one way to be,

Debbie Saroufim: 00:11:25

and so I think, I think part of healing is grieving.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:11:29

I think that part of this healing process is grieving that you don't look the way

Debbie Saroufim: 00:11:34

you wanna look or that you're not aging the way you wanna age, or you know,

Debbie Saroufim: 00:11:38

your, your teeth aren't what you wanted them to be, or your stomach doesn't

Debbie Saroufim: 00:11:42

fall the way you wanted it to fall.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:11:43

Grieving is a huge part of making peace and moving on to

Debbie Saroufim: 00:11:47

that next stage of acceptance.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:11:49

So we have to be there to let our kids grieve.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:11:53

We're so afraid of them being sad, but we need to give them space to grieve.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:11:57

Mm mm

Val Monroe: 00:11:58

Mm-hmm.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:11:59

yeah.

Val Monroe: 00:12:00

That just reminds me of something that my granddaughter said the

Val Monroe: 00:12:02

other day when, um, she was telling me a story and I said something like, oh, and

Val Monroe: 00:12:07

I, I recognized as I was saying this, that there was an element of judgment to it.

Val Monroe: 00:12:12

And I said, oh, honey, that's such a sad story.

Val Monroe: 00:12:15

And she looked at me and she said, I can be sad.

Val Monroe: 00:12:18

I'm like, good for you girl.

Val Monroe: 00:12:20

. Good for you, baby.

Val Monroe: 00:12:22

Of course you can

Val Monroe: 00:12:24

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: That's fantastic.

Val Monroe: 00:12:25

Yeah, I, I think, you know, the term media literacy kind of came up in my mind

Val Monroe: 00:12:30

as you've both been talking about how we process what our culture is feeding us

Val Monroe: 00:12:35

and how we encourage our children and also ourselves to work through that messaging.

Val Monroe: 00:12:41

Because, like you were saying, the feelings of, uh, you know, not

Val Monroe: 00:12:45

liking your body, that's doesn't mean that your body doesn't have value.

Val Monroe: 00:12:49

And it's fine to feel bad, but also taking that additional step

Val Monroe: 00:12:53

of thinking through what Val was touching on, like why do I even feel

Val Monroe: 00:12:57

bad about my body in the first place?

Val Monroe: 00:12:59

Like why do I have these feelings?

Val Monroe: 00:13:00

Who's making me feel sad and inadequate?

Val Monroe: 00:13:03

And, you know, I too am not totally confident that, um, we will live to

Val Monroe: 00:13:09

see a time when beauty standards are abolished, but I think hopefully we'll

Val Monroe: 00:13:14

just have stronger individuals who can make mindful decisions around it

Val Monroe: 00:13:18

and be able to navigate it better.

Val Monroe: 00:13:19

That's something I hope for myself.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:13:21

I mean, yeah, I mean that's the goal, right?

Debbie Saroufim: 00:13:23

You gotta keep doing it every day cuz the, the messaging isn't going anywhere.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:13:26

So there's also, I think, this myth that if you figure it out, you

Debbie Saroufim: 00:13:30

just feel good from that point on.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:13:32

And I wanna just dispel that myth to anybody listening like, uh, I have

Debbie Saroufim: 00:13:36

plenty of days where I don't feel good.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:13:39

Um, I'm guessing Val has plenty of days where she doesn't feel good.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:13:42

And I also think I kind of figured out that, again, not feeling good doesn't

Debbie Saroufim: 00:13:46

mean there's anything wrong with me.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:13:48

Right.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:13:48

Why am I not feeling good?

Debbie Saroufim: 00:13:50

Oh, I'm not, not feeling good cuz I'm not good, I'm, I'm not feeling

Debbie Saroufim: 00:13:53

good cuz of this capitalistic society that has taught me to feel bad.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:13:56

And so, yeah, just having that freedom to know, You're okay.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:14:02

Um, and just to remind, to remind everybody out there, because I know that

Debbie Saroufim: 00:14:07

when you listen to someone talk about this, you're like, man, like she's got it.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:14:11

She's just this.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:14:12

And I, I, I just want you to know like I cry regularly.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:14:15

I have all the same feelings you have, I just have it much more publicly.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:14:21

Which creates the illusion of confidence, right?

Debbie Saroufim: 00:14:24

And that's part of it.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:14:25

If we talk about the social media, this is a whole separate issue.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:14:27

We can do another podcast about it another time.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:14:29

But like this whole, you know, issue of like what does doing it

Debbie Saroufim: 00:14:32

publicly create about the illusion of confidence and whatnot around it.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:14:36

And it's all smoke and mirrors people.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:14:38

It's all smoke and mirrors.

Val Monroe: 00:14:40

What?

Val Monroe: 00:14:40

What is smoke and mirrors, Deb?

Debbie Saroufim: 00:14:43

SOS is like this idea that it's easy, you know, and

Debbie Saroufim: 00:14:45

that like anyone has it figured out and that if you have it figured

Debbie Saroufim: 00:14:49

out, it's, it looks a certain way.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:14:50

Cuz again, even with what I post, even with the obnoxious amount of,

Debbie Saroufim: 00:14:55

vulnerability and regularity that I post with God again, spends too

Debbie Saroufim: 00:14:58

much time on special social media.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:14:59

But like even with that, you still only get the part of

Debbie Saroufim: 00:15:03

me that the camera's on for.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:15:05

You still don't get the moments of deliberation or the screaming that

Debbie Saroufim: 00:15:10

happened moments before, and then I was like, mommy's making a video.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:15:13

And then I make a, you know, video where I'm like, hi, and

Debbie Saroufim: 00:15:16

I've been thinking about this.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:15:17

So you don't get that, right.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:15:19

It's always just an image.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:15:21

And then we carry our own narrative and our own perspective and put it on that.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:15:24

So, I think it's really easy when you hear somebody on a podcast giving advice and

Debbie Saroufim: 00:15:29

talking about, uh, a subject that they are well informed on and passionate about.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:15:35

It's easy to take that and spin that narrative and turn it

Debbie Saroufim: 00:15:39

into why you are not as good.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:15:41

Um, and so I just kind of wanna say you are as good, again, you don't have to feel

Debbie Saroufim: 00:15:46

like you are as good as me to be as good as me, or Val or Cat or any of us, right?

Debbie Saroufim: 00:15:52

We're.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:15:52

We're just doing it in a public situation, which creates the illusion

Debbie Saroufim: 00:15:56

of knowledge and confidence, and we have just as much self-doubt as you.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:16:01

You're just probably not gonna see it.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:16:03

Um, and so that's just to sort of normalize all of that, right?

Val Monroe: 00:16:07

Yeah.

Val Monroe: 00:16:07

I think that's part of the hell of social media is that it hides all

Val Monroe: 00:16:10

of the, you know, the vulnerability.

Val Monroe: 00:16:13

Mostly.

Val Monroe: 00:16:14

Mostly.

Val Monroe: 00:16:14

And then, you know, the people who are being vulnerable.

Val Monroe: 00:16:17

I'm not talking about you, Deb, but, like Paulina, the model, whose last name I

Val Monroe: 00:16:21

can't pronounce without looking at it.

Val Monroe: 00:16:22

Um, she ha posted regularly these, these videos of her sobbing, you know,

Val Monroe: 00:16:27

into her pillow to show her following that she was not a perfect person.

Val Monroe: 00:16:32

And I looked at those and I was like, I'm moving on.

Val Monroe: 00:16:35

I have no desire to watch somebody, you know, sobbing into her pillow.

Val Monroe: 00:16:39

That's something, you know, fine if she wants to do it, but not for me.

Val Monroe: 00:16:43

And I just think it points to the distortion that, so even when you know

Val Monroe: 00:16:47

you're doing what seems like a positive thing, just the fact that you're doing

Val Monroe: 00:16:52

it performatively, I think is weird.

Val Monroe: 00:16:56

You know, it just, um, I don't know.

Val Monroe: 00:16:58

I don't know how, how productive that is in the end.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:17:01

Yeah.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:17:01

That's a, a crazy topic, but the idea how our, everyone has become so

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:17:07

performative because of social media and that that's like the baseline of

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:17:11

so many young people's existence is how do I put this out there in a way

Val Monroe: 00:17:17

right.

Val Monroe: 00:17:18

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: I want to be seen and, yeah.

Val Monroe: 00:17:20

right?

Debbie Saroufim: 00:17:20

That's a lot to contend with.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:17:22

And so then again, just making a space to normalize the negativity

Debbie Saroufim: 00:17:25

that, that you'll feel with it.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:17:27

Cuz again, I think, I mean social media is also capitalistic driven, right?

Debbie Saroufim: 00:17:32

And we've all been programmed now to need it and be addicted to it and need

Debbie Saroufim: 00:17:36

it for our business and need it to share our message and all of this stuff.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:17:40

And yet social media makes us feel pretty bad.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:17:43

And social media is amazing.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:17:45

Social media is how I found both of you, right?

Debbie Saroufim: 00:17:48

But it's the double-edged sword.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:17:50

Social media has brought me to some incredible people who I've been able

Debbie Saroufim: 00:17:53

to really grow and learn and heal with, and it's also been a huge part

Debbie Saroufim: 00:17:58

of what I'm growing and healing from.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:18:00

So it's both,

Val Monroe: 00:18:02

mm-hmm.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:18:03

do either of you have kind of a parting

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:18:05

thought or quote that you'd like to leave with the listeners, you

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:18:10

know, as they go off into the world.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:18:13

I'm gonna highlight the duality of things that we

Debbie Saroufim: 00:18:16

can feel because, um, and I'll use Val as my example actually,

Debbie Saroufim: 00:18:20

and I've said this to her before.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:18:22

Val is someone that I have always just admired from the get-go.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:18:28

and One of the things that I love about Val is that I

Debbie Saroufim: 00:18:31

think she, um, challenges me.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:18:34

She challenges me and I like the way my brain works when she's around.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:18:39

And the challenge also feels scary sometimes.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:18:44

Like, am I enough?

Debbie Saroufim: 00:18:46

And that's mine, right?

Debbie Saroufim: 00:18:47

That, am I enough?

Debbie Saroufim: 00:18:48

Is mine, but I kind of just wanna say that, I think that

Debbie Saroufim: 00:18:52

that's what life is, right?

Debbie Saroufim: 00:18:54

Is the duality of like, Val is someone who, she has been

Debbie Saroufim: 00:18:59

my role model and mentor.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:19:00

I've talked to her about how in many ways she's the same age as my mother.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:19:03

There's a lot of parallels there, and like the way I connect with her is something

Debbie Saroufim: 00:19:08

I don't have in that other relationship.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:19:10

So I def like love is she, you know, I love you Val.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:19:14

This isn't like awkward or anything, but like Yeah.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:19:17

Um, and, and all my stuff gets stirred up around Val and to just sort of say that.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:19:24

That doesn't negate the love and that doesn't, you know, the, the

Debbie Saroufim: 00:19:28

love doesn't undo the fact that all my stuff gets stirred up around Val.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:19:32

And so I'm saying it here because again, I think, this is where we

Debbie Saroufim: 00:19:36

can normalize some of that, right.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:19:37

? And just sort of hold that duality at all times and know

Debbie Saroufim: 00:19:41

that one doesn't negate the other.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:19:43

That's, there you go,

Val Monroe: 00:19:44

So actually I, you know what I have to say, you know,

Val Monroe: 00:19:47

speaking of beauty, that is a beautiful thing that you're doing.

Val Monroe: 00:19:50

I keep saying, yeah, that's, that's a, that's a really strong feeling, but you

Val Monroe: 00:19:53

know what has nothing to do with me.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:19:55

Yeah.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:19:56

It doesn't, it doesn't have anything to do with Val.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:19:59

Um, but that's, that's also important, right?

Debbie Saroufim: 00:20:02

Because like, I think we always think that, that it's about

Debbie Saroufim: 00:20:05

the other person and it's not

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:20:06

Mm.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:20:07

Mm-hmm.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:20:07

it's all about ourselves.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:20:08

So,

Val Monroe: 00:20:09

Well, right, okay.

Val Monroe: 00:20:10

So I found, I found the quote here I go.

Val Monroe: 00:20:12

I'm gonna read it now.

Val Monroe: 00:20:13

Real beauty isn't about symmetry or weight or makeup.

Val Monroe: 00:20:16

It's about looking life right in the face and seeing all its

Val Monroe: 00:20:19

magnificence reflected in your own.

Val Monroe: 00:20:23

That's my parting thought.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:20:25

mm.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:20:26

I want, I want that to be my parting thought too.

Debbie Saroufim: 00:20:28

Can that be, can that

Val Monroe: 00:20:30

Well, you're welcome to it, you can find it on Good Reads,

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:20:36

uh, well this has been magnificent.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:20:38

I'm just honored to have held space amongst the two of you, so thanks

Val Monroe: 00:20:43

again.

Val Monroe: 00:20:43

Fantastic.

Val Monroe: 00:20:44

Thanks Kat.

Val Monroe: 00:20:44

It's most wonderful to be with you.

Val Monroe: 00:20:50

I just loved this chat I had with Val and Debbie.

Val Monroe: 00:20:55

Here are my key takeaways.

Val Monroe: 00:20:57

Number one.

Val Monroe: 00:20:59

Embrace and promote media that features different body types,

Val Monroe: 00:21:02

genders, races, abilities, et cetera.

Val Monroe: 00:21:06

I know we've touched on this before, but it's so worth repeating when

Val Monroe: 00:21:09

we do this, it helps normalize that there's not just one way to be or look.

Val Monroe: 00:21:14

There's not a right way and the rest are wrong.

Val Monroe: 00:21:18

You can do this by deliberately following certain accounts and having

Val Monroe: 00:21:21

your daughters follow certain accounts on social media, where people look

Val Monroe: 00:21:25

different and different body types of.

Val Monroe: 00:21:28

And different types of beauty and bodies, et cetera, are celebrated.

Val Monroe: 00:21:33

You can also do this by fostering media literacy when watching

Val Monroe: 00:21:37

a TV show or movie together.

Val Monroe: 00:21:39

And noting what works and what could be improved.

Val Monroe: 00:21:42

Not necessarily in a judge-y way, like people who like this type

Val Monroe: 00:21:45

of movie or bad, but maybe making it about how we know better.

Val Monroe: 00:21:50

And we know that this may not be true or the whole truth today.

Val Monroe: 00:21:55

Number two.

Val Monroe: 00:21:56

Remember that we're steeped in messaging created by.

Val Monroe: 00:21:59

Uh, capitalist engine.

Val Monroe: 00:22:01

And I know that sounds scary, but it's the truth.

Val Monroe: 00:22:03

Which pressures our girls and us to conform and to consume.

Val Monroe: 00:22:07

So encourage your daughters to be aware of it.

Val Monroe: 00:22:10

Not to make anyone feel bad about having this desire to conform, but

Val Monroe: 00:22:15

so they can recognize where that may come from and build a set of

Val Monroe: 00:22:19

tools for navigating decisions as they move forward in their lives.

Val Monroe: 00:22:24

Number three, normalize and embrace sitting with a variety

Val Monroe: 00:22:29

of emotions all at the same time.

Val Monroe: 00:22:31

You can dislike your body.

Val Monroe: 00:22:33

And that doesn't mean it needs changing and it doesn't mean

Val Monroe: 00:22:35

that you can't change it.

Val Monroe: 00:22:37

It's really up to you.

Val Monroe: 00:22:39

As long as you're thinking about what's motivating you and

Val Monroe: 00:22:41

normalizing the choice that you have in participating in the culture.

Val Monroe: 00:22:46

This reminds me a little bit of how the goal of feminism and gender equity

Val Monroe: 00:22:50

isn't to make all moms go into the workforce after they have kids or to

Val Monroe: 00:22:55

make women more like men, or to make all women climb the corporate ladder.

Val Monroe: 00:23:00

It's really to give all people more freedom of choice and the ability

Val Monroe: 00:23:04

to live authentically without being treated as less than, or

Val Monroe: 00:23:08

second class members of society.

Val Monroe: 00:23:10

Number four also relating to the duality of emotions.

Val Monroe: 00:23:14

Feeling bad.

Val Monroe: 00:23:15

It doesn't mean you are bad.

Val Monroe: 00:23:17

You are allowed to feel bad and that passes it's like grief.

Val Monroe: 00:23:21

And how grief is a step towards healing.

Val Monroe: 00:23:24

You can feel sad about how your body's changing or how you don't

Val Monroe: 00:23:27

meet certain beauty standards.

Val Monroe: 00:23:29

And remember that that doesn't mean you have to change anything or that

Val Monroe: 00:23:33

there's anything wrong with you.

Val Monroe: 00:23:36

Number five.

Val Monroe: 00:23:37

There's a misconception that if you figure it out, you'll just

Val Monroe: 00:23:40

feel good from that point on.

Val Monroe: 00:23:42

And that's just not the case.

Val Monroe: 00:23:44

Even if intellectually, you know, what might be driving you to feel

Val Monroe: 00:23:47

bad about your body or your looks.

Val Monroe: 00:23:50

This doesn't mean you won't or shouldn't have any negative thoughts or bad days.

Val Monroe: 00:23:55

It's an everyday thing.

Val Monroe: 00:23:56

And we're all in this together, using what we've got to navigate

Val Monroe: 00:23:59

the ups and downs because the messaging isn't going anywhere.

Val Monroe: 00:24:03

We'll just need to keep reminding ourselves and each other that

Val Monroe: 00:24:06

we're okay just as we are.

Val Monroe: 00:24:09

And number six.

Val Monroe: 00:24:10

As Val said so eloquently.

Val Monroe: 00:24:13

Real beauty isn't about symmetry or weight or makeup.

Val Monroe: 00:24:18

It's about looking life right in the face and seeing all its

Val Monroe: 00:24:21

magnificence reflected in your own.

Val Monroe: 00:24:25

To learn more about Debbie Serafin visit.

Val Monroe: 00:24:28

www.bodyrelationship.com.

Val Monroe: 00:24:32

And follow her on Instagram at body relationship underscore coach.

Val Monroe: 00:24:37

You can also check out her parents' guide for what not to say to your

Val Monroe: 00:24:40

kids, if you want them to have a healthy relationship with their bodies

Val Monroe: 00:24:44

that is linked in the show notes.

Val Monroe: 00:24:46

Want to feel happier about your appearance, especially as you age,

Val Monroe: 00:24:50

you might like reading more about what Val has to say about it.

Val Monroe: 00:24:53

. Subscribe for free to how not to F up your face@valeriemonroedotsubstack.com.

Val Monroe: 00:25:01

Thanks so much for joining me this week.

Val Monroe: 00:25:03

I know you have choices and how you decide to spend your time

Val Monroe: 00:25:06

and what you decide to listen to.

Val Monroe: 00:25:08

So I'm honored and grateful that you are listening to this.

Val Monroe: 00:25:11

Again, feel free to follow me on Instagram at @knowberaisethem

Val Monroe: 00:25:16

check out, knowberaisethem.com for past episodes, you can leave

Val Monroe: 00:25:20

me a message or even a voicemail.

Val Monroe: 00:25:22

And in the next few weeks, I'll be sharing more information about coaching as well as

Val Monroe: 00:25:27

a collective for moms who are interested in learning more, staying in front of

Val Monroe: 00:25:31

the issues while also becoming informed about how we can show up for ourselves,

Val Monroe: 00:25:36

and our kids with intention and grace.

Val Monroe: 00:25:40

Until then here's to strong women, may we know them.

Val Monroe: 00:25:43

May we be them.